Anyone out there worried about no crash test data yet?

[Japhy]

Hi everyone....as a reservation holder on one of the 2e's, and knowing we're only a couple months out for supposed delivery to customers, is there anyone out there worried about the complete (in my eyes) lack of true data in terms of crash worthiness and occupant safety? The website only talks marketing babel...nothing rooted in sound engineering numbers. As an engineer with experience in vehicle crash testing, having a stiff and elastic structure in by no means a clear sign of great crash energy management. If you don't have something that permanently stores this energy (plastic deformation), you are simply using the "springiness" of the frame as temporary kinetic energy storage, and once the initial crash impulse is over and done with, you are going to unload all that energy and go through a second likely messy spike after the airbags have already been deployed due to the initial crash event.

Your thoughts?

[APTERA 2356]

No I'm not woried.

[KarenRei]

Originally Posted by Japhy

Hi everyone....as a reservation holder on one of the 2e's, and knowing we're only a couple months out for supposed delivery to customers, is there anyone out there worried about the complete (in my eyes) lack of true data in terms of crash worthiness and occupant safety? The website only talks marketing babel...nothing rooted in sound engineering numbers. As an engineer with experience in vehicle crash testing, having a stiff and elastic structure in by no means a clear sign of great crash energy management. If you don't have something that permanently stores this energy (plastic deformation), you are simply using the "springiness" of the frame as temporary kinetic energy storage, and once the initial crash impulse is over and done with, you are going to unload all that energy and go through a second likely messy spike after the airbags have already been deployed due to the initial crash event.

Your thoughts?

You haven't seen the vids showing how the front folds up? They designed the vehicle using the same crash-testing software BMW uses. And yes, they'll conduct physical crash tests before it's released.

[Japhy]

Yes...I've seen the vids if we're talking about the finite element crash simulation....I happen to have extensive knowledge of vehicle crash simulation....I'm actually setting one up for another vehicle (can't say what) right now. The software you refer to is Abaqus, and all I can say is garbage in, garbage out...it's a great code but you need to have the right material properties, etc. There are a variety of codes out there that can simulate these highly non-linear, high speed events. Abaqus is actually a late comer to the crash world and just because BMW uses it doesn't really mean a thing. It's like saying you are an Indy driver by sliding behind the wheel of one of those speed machines.

I can give you a pretty picture or tell you disaster will strike based on how I "model" the vehicle. You first have to make sure your "model" represents what the actual physical crash event does. To do so you have to crash some vehicles and make sure the model tells the true story.

Be very careful with marketing material is all I'm saying. I'm not rollin' the dice for my life, based on anything but the cold hard facts backed by some standardized testing.

[gistmarrs]

It's bound to be much better than my motorcycle!

[speculawyer]

I plan to not crash.

[SEGsby]

That's the rub... No one WANTS to have an accident, but they can strike at any time. Just ask my friend that died earlier this year on his motorcycle, in LA. Oh wait, you can't. He's dead now.

That's why such events are not called "Intentionals".


Crash data is going to be like the rest of the vehicle-- secret until they have to talk about / sell it to the masses. I'm not any more worried or concerned about this one aspect, than I am anything else about the Aptera Experience thus far.

[OC-LA driver]

I will be very interested in seeing real crash tests (or at least real crash photos, any volunteers?). Thes vehicle may have 2x or 4x the FMVSS required roof strength for automobiles, but that standard is expressed relative to vehicle weight. So I think it'll be about as strong as a Camry in an absolute sense, based on ome months-old discussions on this forum. Anyone with newer thoughts on this?

I am reassured that the body deforms and springs back to shape much more than steel, AND I am very interested to see how the body fails when deformation limits are exceeded. I hope not to experience shell failure in person, but it's not entirely within my control....

[SEGsby]

"Shell Failure"; I like that term. It is both objectively descriptive and yet disabilingly terrifying at the same time.

And yeah, the energy required to generate such a failure would probably not be pleasant to be around, I would expect... Makes me think of baby chicks too young to hatch properly... *goo*

[KarenRei]

Yes...I've seen the vids if we're talking about the finite element crash simulation....

That's actually not what I was talking about, and AFAIK, there are no FEM videos released by Aptera. Like I mentioned, in some of the videos, they talk about how the metal cage in the front is designed to fold up in an accident, not only acting as a crumple zone, but also deflecting impact force under the vehicle, thus lengthening the deceleration.