Norway's Think Global

[butter]

I feel like this Think Global car hasn't been mentioned (at least not often enough to catch in my memory) in the off-topic threads on "competitors'" EV cars.

I just read this article in the LA Times on it. And weirdly enough, I happened to see one driving down my road two days ago, and had no idea what it was, because it was clearly fully electric and yet had a fully formed car body (as opposed to golf cart or motorcycle body). I was like, hey, how'd he get that here?

Anyway, it makes kind of an interesting comparison with the Aptera -- at least from this layperson's point of view. I'm not a car person, I'm not an engineer, but aside from the "mostly plastic exterior" (which sounded a little scary without further explanation), the Think Global seems like it might realistically compete with the Aptera crowd due to pricing and timing and other similar characteristics that laypeople like me focus on.

http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...,5696213.story

What do you think?
Butter

[appyfan]

I've been a fan of the think for a while, and I used to think that the Think city was pretty cool, but unfortunatly its another one of those "castle in the cloud" ideas. People suck.

[butter]

Hi appyfan, thanks for actually responding! I was wondering if anyone ever would, because I swear, after reading about the Think, it seemed like quite a worthy competitor to the Aptera, and I was puzzled as to why it wasn't mentioned more here.

What do you mean by "castle in the cloud" ideas? Though my only source of info is that LA Times article, it sure sounds like their plans are pretty concrete. But maybe they're just blowing smoke?

For the rest of you, here's the article pasted --

********
Electric car for the masses to be made in Southern California
Norway's Think Global will begin selling its inexpensive, eco-friendly vehicles in the U.S. next year.
By Ken Bensinger, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
April 22, 2008

Norwegian automaker Think Global said Monday it planned to sell low-priced electric cars to the masses and will introduce its first models in the U.S. by the end of next year.

The battery-powered Think City will be able to travel up to 110 miles on a single charge, with a top speed of about 65 mph, the company said. It will be priced below $25,000.

Oslo-based Think said venture capital firms RockPort Capital Partners and Kleiner, Perkins, Caufield & Byers had made investments to fund its entry into the U.S. under the auspices of Think North America.

"This is not a toy," said Wilber James, RockPort managing partner. "This is a serious car that we expect to sell."

Think North America is likely to be based in Southern California, the investors said, and the cars it sells here will be assembled locally. The venture investors will own half of Think North America. In March, General Electric Co. invested $4 million in Think Global.

Although technology for electric cars has been advancing -- and consumer interest has been rising amid growing concern over gasoline prices and greenhouse gases -- few vehicles have come to market. Last month, San Carlos, Calif.-based Tesla Motors began production of its Roadster, an electric vehicle that costs $100,000.

The Think City "is a mass-market vehicle," said Kleiner managing partner Ray Lane, dismissing comparisons to the Roadster. Tesla's car is being produced in relatively small numbers, with roughly 300 expected by the end of this year. "Our desire is to be selling 30-40-50,000 of these cars in a couple of years."

Think Chief Executive Jan-Olaf Willums said the company would bring test vehicles to the U.S. in the coming months.

The Think City runs on sodium batteries, but future versions could use lithium ion batteries, Willums said. The company is working with A123 Systems and EnerDel Inc., to develop the batteries, which would boost range and speed.

With most automakers focusing on hybrid technology, only a handful, including Nissan Motor Co. and Mitsubishi Motor Co., have announced plans to produce all-electric cars. Mitsubishi's MiEV is set to go on sale in Japan next year.

Ford Motor Co. was the longtime owner of Think but sold it in 2003. It was purchased by Norweigan investors two years ago, and began selling cars in Norway this year, with sales in Sweden, Denmark and Britain expected this year. The company said its annual production capacity in Europe is 10,000 vehicles.

The Think City, a two-seater that can be fitted with two additional seats for children, has a mostly plastic exterior and is 95% recyclable. Willums said a convertible was in development. "Women want to buy it immediately," he said.

************

[KarenRei]

The article left out the big "Gotcha!" with the Think City: $300 a month battery rental, if I'm remembering the articles I've seen on AutoblogGreen right. Multiply that out by how long you'd own it for and then compare that price with what you get: a car that tops out at 62mpg, does 0-50 in "quite a while", and so on. Mind you, it's an order of magnitude better than a ZAP.

[appyfan]

The think is really cool. I think it would be a noble competitor to Aptera if they just got their sh1t together. Plus there is some Ford influence and that could only mean more complication and further delays. I say castle in the clouds because its something thats in the news which sounds like a great idea but will never come down here to Earth. You can never trust companies these days. People still suck.

But hey be positive right?

[n_dawg]

Originally Posted by appyfan

I say castle in the clouds because its something thats in the news which sounds like a great idea but will never come down here to Earth. You can never trust companies these days.

At first glance Aptera is the same way, and it might still end up like that. One of the most common criticisms I find is that the engineers were trying to make it “too futuristic,” and asking “why can't they make it look like a normal car?!” Now of course these criticisms don't effect the physics of the Aptera, but they will certainly effect its sales. In the end, the sales are what really matters…

I don't agree with these criticisms, and have rebuffed them on occasion. All I'm saying is, “Those in glass houses…”

[appyfan]

Hey now, I'm not exactly a firm believer of any start up electric car company. You can see the amount of faith I have just by checking my posts in the other "Aptera being bought out by GM" thread. Plus, if I did have full faith in Aptera I would have made my 500 buck reservation. The only reason why I'm here is cause Aptera represents one of the most advanced and viably possible electric vehicle technology that's believable enough for me to be a member.

Bottom line is, any reasonably designed electric car that I can buy right here right now is a good enough electric car. We all drive machines that burn fuel in order to get their energy rather than consume electrical power and at this point, losers can't be choosers. We just have to be happy with whatever we get even if it isn't something as cool as Appy.

Don't get me wrong, I want the Aptera to make it... But people and business make everything so complicated and often times it's the folks with the big bucks that call the shots.

[butter]

Originally Posted by KarenRei

The article left out the big "Gotcha!" with the Think City: $300 a month battery rental, if I'm remembering the articles I've seen on AutoblogGreen right. Multiply that out by how long you'd own it for and then compare that price with what you get: a car that tops out at 62mpg, does 0-50 in "quite a while", and so on. Mind you, it's an order of magnitude better than a ZAP.

Ah, okay. Thanks, KarenRei -- this is precisely what I was seeking (without realizing it) -- the attached string. I knew it sounded a little too good to be true.

I'll still keep my eyes open for any news on it; it still seems otherwise (to me at least) to be the nearest possible contender for the Aptera.

[futura]

Leasing the battery may happen with Chevy Volt as well. If the costs on the Volt get too high it's a way for them to introduce it for a lower sticker price.
They'll market it as providing "peace of mind" for consumers concerned about battery reliability or some crud.
It's not a totally bad idea. Like most things, it just comes down to "how much".

Forbes says the Think battery lease ( mobility charge ) may be 1/2 as much -- $150, in the U.S.
http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/04/2...0422think.html
How much would you pay? If Aptera offered a lease option on the battery allowing you to buy the car for $20K but pay $100/mo extra with the battery replaced every 3 yrs it might entice a lot of buyers who frown on the ~$30k price. It's not an option I want and I don't think Aptera will have that kind of production capability for awhile... in other words they can sell all they can make for the next two years I'll bet.
Cheers

[KarenRei]

Forbes says the Think battery lease ( mobility charge ) may be 1/2 as much -- $150, in the U.S.

Even if the lease is $150/mo in the US, half of what it is in Europe, in ten years, that's still ~$40k for a very underperforming car. It's definitely not one of the better deals of the bunch.

If Aptera offered a lease option on the battery allowing you to buy the car for $20K but pay $100/mo extra with the battery replaced every 3 yrs it might entice a lot of buyers who frown on the ~$30k price.

Anyone who would replace a LiP battery pack every 3 years is being horribly wasteful. It should last somewhere between half the life of the car to the entire life of the car.

There's really no reason to do battery leases with lithium phosphate, titanates, or spinels. The battery lifespan is so long, it's just a way to annoy customers by letting them only "kind of" own their own cars. Car loans, fine. Car leases, fine for those who want them. Battery warranties, why not? But making it so you only kind of own your car, kind of not? Uck.

If you're going to start leasing batteries with lifespans this long, you might as well start leasing out transmissions and engine blocks on conventional cars.