Lit Motors C-1 enclosed motorcycle

[PatQ562]

I don't see any mechanical stand, but there must be.

Note the brief "feet are down" readout at 0:33 into the video.
Pat Q

[randyd]

Originally Posted by PatQ562

Note the brief "feet are down" readout at 0:33 into the video.
Pat Q

I saw that and at first, I thought that those were "virtual feet"; assurance to the rider that it was safe to get out. The gyroscope probably has multiple modes of operation and one of them might be for parking. And I looked carefully at all the photos for any sign of a mechanical stand, but did not see any.

Then I looked again at the other video and saw that at 1:10, there is a stand-like appendage descending from the "passenger" side to the ground. And all marketing photos are of the "driver" side.

So, the "magic" is turned off when parked. There's no extra cost stand option. Move on. Move on. There's nothing to see here.

[randyd]

For those interested, Lit Motors has updated their web site. There are a ton of photos of their development process and they are now taking $250 refundable deposits.

The location of the photos is not obvious. First click on the About tab, then click on the "How" tab on the left side (or just click here). Once there, the left and right arrows at the bottom will take you through a bunch of photos, some junk, some really interesting like cardboard mock-ups of the C1 interior, suspension test mules, and so on.

Check it out.

[PatQ562]

They seem to be almost to the Zen stage of Aptera (2007-2008?). Do they have a runner yet? It's just crazy enough to work, but this time I'll probably wait till I see them on the road.

Pat Q

[randyd]

The video from Smart Planet shows they have working scale model, and this photo



suggests a full-size working mule. Elsewhere on the web site it reports that the product will use in-wheel motors (yeah, plural) which I don't see in the mule. The non-working cosmetic mock up looks great too. So, they seem at least 3 months away from having a Zen-stage prototype. But we don't know when any specific photo was taken.

As a motorcycle rider, I look at that design, and I am concerned about the visibility and body position. The pillars in front are wide and look like they might block your view of the pavement where your wheels will be traveling. And the seated position in the mock-up is more reclined than I prefer. Do you ride it or do you drive it? Either way, it will take a lot of mental adjustment for anyone to become comfortable with it.

[PatQ562]

Presumably (a big assumption), it will drive much like a low-slung car, but only time will tell. The whole point is you don't have to actively maintain balance by maintaining headway and using the steering, like a bicycle or motorcycle. Without the gyro, I agree that riding what is essentially a recumbent bike would take some getting used to.

Pat Q

[randyd]

Even with the gyro, it still is more like a recumbent bike than a motorcycle.

I presume that at any speed, the C-1 will have to lean to counteract centripetal force, and that the smarts of the C-1 will have to allow/force lean to prevent the gyros from hitting their stops. Imagine driving around a parking lot in circles, at 3 mph, a walking pace. The gyros will have to induce just the right amount of lean OR they will have to counteract gravity. If the gyros are keeping the C-1 upright, they will eventually run out of travel and the C-1 will fall. So, I conclude, the gyros will have to force lean, and at slow forward speeds, that could toss the driver about a bit.

Anyway, here is a link to a new video from CNN. 200 mile range, 120 mph, $16,000 price,... It is sounding more and more like it's TGTBT (too good to be true).

Unless the gyros are made of batteries, there just doesn't seem to be any space left for enough batteries to go 200 miles, even with a very low CdA, and it looks like it is being designed more for looks than aero. The VLC gets 114 miles on a 10.5 kWH battery pack. Let's assume that the C-1 has twice the efficiency and gets twice the miles (~200) on the same 10.5 kWH pack. That is between 17 and 35 LITERS of batteries. I just can't imagine where in that design, the 17 liters are going to fit, let alone 35 liters. Maybe the claims are assuming some new-fangled battery breakthrough? Or maybe we will end up with a FatC-1 in the end.

Good thing I only want/need 100 miles of range.

[PatQ562]

I accept your evaluation of gyro behaviors pending actual demonstration. As far as 35 liters of batteries go, that's only 10cm x 50 cm x 70 cm (4" x 20" x 28"), which would fit easily under the floor or the seat. That said, it's worth noting that lithium batteries are a lot lighter but not THAT much smaller, although they still hold more power per unit of volume, and lots more power per unit of weight.

Pat Q

[randyd]

Point taken about the volume. I was thinking about 35 1 quart milk cartons.

As far as the battery type, I was using the lithium-ion energy density range from Wikipedia of 250-620 W-h/L, a 10 kWH pack, and rounding up or down a bit to get 17-35 L (ignoring the charger, BMS, thermal control, etc.).

P.S. If the C-1 does get 200 miles/charge, then maybe the charger CAN sit on the wall of the garage, and not take up space in the C1. Hmm... Or maybe it can be portable and sit behind the driver when there is no passenger.

[PatQ562]

As often noted, downsizing the vehicle also allows for downsizing the supporting equipment. A small battery allows useful recharge times from 115V at 1500W; clever design can incorporate this circuitry in the motor controller, but even a separate charger is about the size of a 1-quart milk carton.

200 miles per charge seems like an idealized possibility (running at an easy speed without hills or stopping), but if an Aptera/Edison2 sized vehicle can reach 100wh/mi, it might be possible for a low-slung, 2-wheel, single-seat vehicle to hit 50wh/mi under ideal conditions.

Among the many other questions, one wonders if this vehicle will be legal on the freeway.

Pat Q