Grid Storage

[randyd]

Originally Posted by smilingcat

So what size of blast furnace do you need to get it to the operating temperature.

This sounds like an area ripe for development and testing. But theoretically, for power grid operations, you just heat it by passing electricity through the core.

Originally Posted by smilingcat

Mg melting point is around 640C (1200F). I'm sure you could alloy it to reduce the melting point. But still.. and how much energy will you be losing through radient heat? Can you insulate it well enough?

For stationary installations, just add as many layers of insulation as you need to reduce the conductive (and radiant) heat loss to as low as you want. Weight and size are not that important so you don't even have to use exotic insulation materials.

[PatQ562]

The beauty of this concept is that you can make the battery REALLY big just by adding more raw material. That's the designer's main insight. No complicated replication of plates, insulators, etc etc, just three massive layers of uniform materials (exact composition still in research by the way). How about something the size of an old fashioned gasometer? The larger you make it, the better the ratio of active material to surface area that needs insulation. Presumably a practical system will be many cells in series, but they can still be arranged inside a big container with insulation.

Molten systems are impractical for mobile use, but fine for supervised utility operations.

Pat Q

[Sheepdog 44]

There are ZEBRA batteries of molten salt used in cars.

[PatQ562]

How many? The program seems like a lab curiosity at best. The issue of course is long-term storage. And what about rupturing in accidents? And, these molten batteries still require separators and structures to keep the ingredients in place. Pat Q

[Sheepdog 44]

Th!nk city cars offered a zebra battery option. I think they went bankrupt recently but you might find one of their cars if can buy it anymore is running around with one of them. Thats about it except for some fleet test vehicle vans.

[dfbvt]

Wow! The KISS principle at its best! No moving parts, scailable and cheap. Way simpler than Beacon's Smart Energy 25 flywheel.

From Beacon's web site: At 16,000 rpm the flywheel can store and deliver 25 kWh of extractable energy. At 16,000 rpm, the surface speed of the rim would be approximately Mach 2 - or about 1500 mph - if it were operated in normal atmosphere. At that speed the rim must be enclosed in a high vacuum to reduce friction and energy losses. To reduce losses even further, the rotor is levitated with a combination of permanent magnets and an electromagnetic bearing.

So it would take only six 36" Bistro Table sized battery's to store about the same amount of energy - with no parts moving at Mach 2, ETC!!!!

Neil is absolutely right. This is a hugely important development for helping to stabilize the grid.

Lets hope Don and LMBC are successful!

Dave Bowles