No Aptera yet? How about a Zotye by April?

[c0mp13x]

Will Spark-EV actually be able to retrofit 2,900 LiPoly cells in this Chinese mini-SUV and get them on the road by April, yes April 2008, for under $20K?!
75MPH
110 Mile Range
3000+ Charge cycles
Seating for 4
AC/Heat/Stereo
Delivery in 60 days!

Spark-EV Zotye (http://www.spark-ev.com/zotye.html)

IF Spark can make this a reality, will the Zotye be the first, practical, Lithium powered vehicle to begin the EV renaissance?

http://upload.moldova.org/galerie_auto/137/thumbnails2/200591103816298.jpg

[KarenRei]

I saw that on Autobloggreen, and I really doubt it. Kudos to them if they can pull it off, but I'm doubtful. I mean, do the math: it's a conversion, and the stock Zotye costs $15-$17k:

http://auto.moldova.org/auto/eng/85/137/

How are you going to pay for labor, a few tens of kilowatt hours of li-poly batties (needed for 100mi on a vehicle like that), an electric motor, controller circuitry, and so forth on a $3-5k budget? Even at Chinese prices, that's unheard of, and yet they plan to do this conversion in the states.

Perhaps it's a loss leader? If it's for real, that's my best bet.

[RoxChkPlusOny]

In converting the Zotye and stripping it of its ICE parts (tailpipe cough cough), how much do you think they can net aftermarket?

[drivin98]

There has been lots of talk on the internets about Spark-EV the past few weeks. I would read all the comments following the ABG post as well as check out a couple threads on the GM-Volt forum (http://www.gm-volt.com/volt-discussion/?forum=4&page=1).
The Spark guy really doesn't go out of his way to convince people he's not a scammer.

[LQUAN]

If this car is using Lithium Polymer battery for power, then I will stay away from it. I'll stay away for these reasons:

- Li-Po has the shortest lifespan (around 400 cycles at normal use)
- Li-Po swells 15-20% when discharge at high current
- Li-Po explodes on impact
- Li-Po explodes when improperly charge
- Li-Po needs a balance charger (each cell must be charged individually)
- Li-Po is the most expensive (e.g. $420 for a 10 cells pack at 37V 4A/hr)
- EPA in the US does not allow manufacturing of Li-Po in the states (all are made in China or elsewhere)
- Li-Po cell is a sealed aluminum foil bag that contains dangerous chemical (bag can rupture when overheat)
- Li-Po holds charge very poorly
- Li-Po lifespan gets shorten considerably if you accidentally (or force it) to drain bellow certain percentage even for 1 or 2 times

My RC electric helicopters used to run on Li-Po and you just can't imaging the frustration. The best Li-Po on the market only lasted about 70 cycles for these helicopters due to their abusive performance - drain a 37V 4A/hr pack in 12 minutes! Extremely hot after each run. Most RC hobbyists are changing to A123 battery. I gave up flying RC electric helicopters and fly only RC aerobatic gasoline powered fixed wing aircrafts - more bang for the buck.

[KarenRei]

That's another reason to find this suspect. 3000+ charge cycles on li-poly? Since when?

[RoxChkPlusOny]

I also watched a few devastating videos of Chinese cars in crash tests at 30 mph. It's disgusting...

[KarenRei]

From autobloggreen:

10. Do NOT do any business with Spark~EV (aka Michael Papp). He still owes me a Zooom EV Scooter from last July 2007. He says it is in his 'shop', but will not send it, nor answer my emails.
I am the 'originator' of the NAME; "Spark~EV", when Michael Papp ran an internet 'contest' to rename his old 'troubled' company, "FLYBO-EV". After he announced me the winner of a New Zooom EV Scooter (promised delivery in 30 days), he kept coming up with 'excuses' (no word, in port; awaiting clearance, etc.). I still have not received my Zooom, but he has been 'operating' under the "SPAEK~EV" name for the past 7 months.
I checked with his 'listed Florida distributor'. They said that they were 'considering' carrying his products, but got concerned when he kept coming up with excuses why they could not visit his 'assembly facility' in Penna.
DO NOT SEND THIS GUY ANY MONEY!!!!!!!
Yeah; his website says; "We take these vehicles, remove the engine, transmission (as well as stick-shift), fuel tank, exhaust, etc. We remove the interior completely, installing the 2,900 (That is two-thousand, nine-hundred) LiPoly cells throughout the vehicle, along with all required electronics, and re-install the interior. We install corrected gauges, modified power steering, motor-cooling, electro-ceramic heating, and AC motor. The end result is a vehicle that looks like it was not modified at all."
They do ALL THIS for under $20,000, but still have a picture of an 'UN-modified Zotye' (with an ICE tailpipe) on their web-page. You would think that if they had completed at LEAST ONE modification, they could take a picture of a 'MODIFIED' Zotye, and used it in their advertising.
"WHAT A POORLY DONE SCAM! At least he could have 'PhotoShopped' it out (if he had any talent).

Too bad the EV community has been 'blighted' with such SCUM! I would hope that a reputable enity like "AutoblogGreen" would do a better 'background research' before providing a national forum for someone like Michael Papp and his 'current company'; Spark-EV, to bilk others, and raise false hopes.

Posted at 4:55PM on Feb 6th 2008 by rogwild


Spark-EV then commented about how the scooter is waiting for Roger in his shop, but that's what Roger said Papp had been telling him for months. In short, *Do Not Trust This Man*.

[LQUAN]

Come to think of it, Spark-EV website and contents look pretty cheesy and fishy. Bringing full size cars to the US market is not easy. Even Mercedes is having a hard time bringing their SMART micro cars into the US market. This joker, Michael Papp, thinks he can do it with Chinese made cars.

[KarenRei]

A google search for "Michael Papp" and "scam" reveals that he's been in the scamming business for a long, long time -- and not just in cars.

Moral of the story: if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

[c0mp13x]

http://indiescribe.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/070106_chevrolet_volt_hmed7phmedium.jpg

...if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. :D

[KarenRei]

Personally, I think the Volt is kind of ugly, with it's tiny windshield and oversized front end. Of course, that seems to be the trend nowadays, for some strange reason. And the original price for the Volt does seem to have been "too good to be true", as it's gone from "$30k" to "closer to $40k than $30k".

Nonetheless, the Volt was at least *plausible* for $30k. An *all electric* *SUV* for only *$20k*, coming out in *60 days* with no advanced news about its development? If your BS detector didn't go off, you need to get it checked out :)

[MegaAutoBit]

http://indiescribe.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/070106_chevrolet_volt_hmed7phmedium.jpg

...if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. :D

Come on that’s not really fair. Let’s not be throwing stones. A lot of people think the Aptera is a scam.

[KarenRei]

What sort of scam raises tens of millions in venture capital for the ultimate goal of fleecing individuals (CA residents only) out of only half a million dollars total in deposits? What sort of scam builds multiple working prototype vehicles and lets reporters from PopMech and the LA Times (among others) test drive them? Pretty bizarre scam, if you ask me ;) Plus, the economics actually work out for the Aptera. With only 10kWh of batteries, that's actually affordable.

What's "not really fair"? My comments on the Volt? I think it's ugly; so sue me :) Or my comments on well-known scammer Michael Papp? If you really think he's not a scammer, I've got about two dozen people that he's ripped off for you to talk to.

[MegaAutoBit]

What sort of scam raises tens of millions in venture capital for the ultimate goal of fleecing individuals (CA residents only) out of only half a million dollars total in deposits? What sort of scam builds multiple working prototype vehicles and lets reporters from PopMech and the LA Times (among others) test drive them? Pretty bizarre scam, if you ask me ;) Plus, the economics actually work out for the Aptera. With only 10kWh of batteries, that's actually affordable.

What's "not really fair"? My comments on the Volt? I think it's ugly; so sue me :) Or my comments on well-known scammer Michael Papp? If you really think he's not a scammer, I've got about two dozen people that he's ripped off for you to talk to.

I was responding to the comment made by c0mp13x. If you read some of the blogs online, some people, not me, believe the Aptera is a scam. I never said they were logical people.

[KarenRei]

Ah, okay :)

[rogwild]

There has been lots of talk on the internets about Spark-EV the past few weeks. I would read all the comments following the ABG post as well as check out a couple threads on the GM-Volt forum (http://www.gm-volt.com/volt-discussion/?forum=4&page=1).
The Spark guy really doesn't go out of his way to convince people he's not a scammer.


Well, he's been 'caught' again!:)
No Zotye 'conversion' ever existed.:mad:

http://www.pennlive.com/expresstimes/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1207800375252770.xml&coll=2

http://tinyurl.com/6cf9f7

And, NO, I never got my ZOOOM EV scooter from him!

[akuehnemund]

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/04/13/spark-evs-michael-papp-arrested-in-electric-vehicle-scam/

[swinti]

IF Spark can make this a reality, will the Zotye be the first, practical, Lithium powered vehicle to begin the EV renaissance?


The 1st Lithium EV on the market is the LION-TWIKE (http://www.twike.de/home.356.de.html).